Campagne d'Afrique "Tigers"

Je ne sais plus pourquoi, mais il y avait une question sur le nombre de Tigers en Afrique. Tirée de Tiger Tank Batatalions during WWII :

Citation :

The 501st had been outfitted with 20 Tigers and 25 PzKpfw III Ausf N. All 20 Tigers safely made the crossing to Tunisia...

pas question de voler la dessus

oui c'est moi qui et parlé de ça tes sur 25 ?

il me semble que quatre mais bon si tu le dis

Je ne peux pas m'en empêcher: "a tiger??? in Africa???" (citation du film "Le sens de la vie des Monty Pythons)

Alors il y a eu des Tigre en Afrique? quand sont-ils arrivés? çà m'intéresse pour la campagne en préparation.

F/JG300_Hammel a écrit:

oui c'est moi qui et parlé de ça tes sur 25 ?

25 PzIIIN en support des 20 Tigers.

Source différente:

Citation :

Chronology
16 Feb 42 schwere Panzer-Kompanie 501 and 502 were formed.

10 May 42 schwere Panzer-Abteilung 501 formed in Erfurt (WK IX) with Stab and 1.Kp. from s.Pz.Kp.501 and 2.Kp. from s.Pz.Kp.502. Planned for duty in North Africa.

late Aug 42 The first Tigers arrive.

Oct 42 20 Tigers and 16 PzKpfw IIIs on hand, 2 platoons of the 2.Kp. are sent to southern France.

10-18 Nov 42 The Abteilung, except for its 2.Kp. are sent to Reggio, Italy.

23 Nov 42 The first 3 Tiger Is of 1.Kp. arrive in Tunisia.

1 Dec 42 The Tiger tank see its first combat action of WWII while in North Africa as a part of this unit.

3 Dec 42 3 more Tigers are unloaded in Bizerta.

9 Dec 42 7 Tigers and 5 PzKpfw IIIs on strength in Tunisia.

25 Dec 42 12 Tigers and 16 PzKpfw IIIs on hand.

early Jan 43 The 2.Kp. arrives in Tunis with 8 Tigers.

31 Jan 43 11 Tigers and 14 PzKpfw IIIs are operational.

26 Feb 43 The unit is redesignated as III./Panzer-Regiment 7 of the 10.Panzer-Division. Each company received 15 PzKpfw IVs at the time.

28 Feb 43 2 Tigers received, 18 on hand.

6 Mar 43 The 3.Kp. formed in Europe.

10 Mar 43 6 Tigers, 12 PzKpfw IIIs, and 7 PzKpfw IVs operational.

17 Mar 43 Attached to s.Pz.Abt.504.

12 May 43 Stab, 1.Kp. and 2.Kp. surrendered in Tunisia.

J'ai toujours cru que les premiers Tigers furent utilisés vers Léningrad, mais apparemment non...

Citation :

Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 501 was formed on 10 May 1942 in Erfurt, Germany, by combining schwere Panzer-Kompanie 501 und 502 into one unit. Personnel from Panzer-Ersatz-Abteilung 1 stationed in Erfurt were also incorported into the new Abteilung, as well as men from the armor gunnery school at Putlos. In detail, the Stab of the new Abteilung was offically formed on 10 May 42, while the 1.Kp. was formed from s.Pz.Kp.501, and the 2.Kp. from s.Pz.Kp.502.

After its initial formation the Abteilung was prepared for tropical service in North Africa and then transfered via train to Reggio, Italy, minus the 2.Kp. which was diverted to France as a part of the occupying force in Vichy France. On 20 Nov 42, the unit began the sea transport of its heavy equipment and vehicles to Tunisia while its men were flown across in low flying Ju52 transports. The first three Tigers of the unit arrived in North Africa on 23 Nov 42. The last panzers of 2.Kp. would arrive in Tunisia later on 24 Jan 43.

The nature of combat in North Africa in 1943 necessitated that the Germans form a number of ad-hoc combat groups, known as Kampfgruppen, in an attempt to stem the Allied advance. Ironically, it was in the last stages of combat in North Africa when the front was collapsing rapidly from all directions that the German High Command authorized the transfer of a number of powerful infantry and armor units to the Theater - something Rommel had been requesting for the duration of the entire campaign. As portions of these units intermittenly arrived in Tunisia, they were hurriedly rushed into combat, versus waiting for the entire unit to arrive and form up. It was in this manner that the first Tiger tanks would see combat.

Prior to the employement of the first Tigers of the Abteilung, the Abteilung commanding officer, Major Lueder (who arrived in Tunis ahead of his unit), formed Kampfgruppe Lueder. Kampfgruppe Lueder would fight between 24 Nov 42 and 4 Dec 42 in the region of Tebourba in Northern Tunisia. The Kampfgruppe was ordered formed to support Kampfgruppe Koch (also known as Fallschirmjägergruppe Koch) which was fighting to retake lost ground along the front of the northern Tunisian bridgehead.

The first three Tigers to see combat in WWII (and in North Africa) went into action on 1 Dec 42 near Dschedeida in Tunisia as a part of Kampfgruppe Lueder. The Tigers were from the 1.Kp. of the Abteilung, and during the attack, the company commander was killed in action, as was his replacement shortly thereafter. Under the direction of the 10.Panzer-Division, Kampfgruppe Lueder was ordered to attack Tebourba again on the 2 Dec 42, and in so doing, managed to temporarily halt an enemy breakthrough. The next day, the Kampfgruppe continued its attack against Tebourba and finally took complete control of the city on 4 Dec 42 with the aid of a heavy concentration of Stuka divebombers. All Tigers present were put out of action by the time the city finally fell. With the Capture of Tebourba, Kampfgruppe Lueder was disbanded and the various units of the Abteilung reverted back to schwere Panzer-Abteilung 501, ending the first series of actions involving Tiger tanks in the Second World War.

The Abteilung continued to see fierce action in the central and northern regions of Tunisia for the next two months, fighting bitterly contested battles against the advancing Allies. In January, the 2.Kp. finally arrived in North Africa, and together with the 1.Kp., they continued to fight in the region of central Tunisia in see-saw clashes against the ever-smaller Axis bridgehead. On 26 Feb 43, schwere Panzer-Abteilung 501 was incorporated into Pz.Rgt.7/10.Pz.Div. as the III.Abteilung. Its 1.Kp. became the 7.Kp./III.Abteilung, and the 2.Kp. the 8.Kp./III.Abteilung. On 17 Mar 43, the remaining units of the Abteilung were attached to the newly arrived schwere Panzer-Abteilung 504.

All the units of the Abteilung were destroyed or surrendered in Tunisia with final the Axis Capitulation in May of 1943, minus a 3.Kp. which was formed on 6 Mar 43, but was never sent to North Africa. This unit was later renamed as 10.Kp./Pz.Rgt.GD on 1 Jul 43.

oui je confirme les premier tigre on etait employé en afrique c'est la qu'il on pris leur reputation


ils ont attaqué des français qui avais des 75 qui pouvais detruire n'impote quel char avant le tigre

les tigre arrive les français tire touche, le char et toujours la ils lui mettrons trois coup au but

sans degat apres ils sont partie parce que le tigre a commencé a ce defendre

quelle bête... Sur RO, 2 Tiger, Julius et Edwald, une bonne douzaine de T34 à nous deux !

le probleme de ce char est qu'il et lent lourd et a peu d'autonomie

tourelle assez lente, effectivement

Allez les enfants, vous laissez pas emboucaner par la propagande des 'ricains sur le Tigre. Il est lourd, c'est vrai. Il a peu d'autonomie, c'est vrai. Mais il a quelques tours dans sa manche. Déjà, il peut tourner sans avancer, ce qui va surprendre quelques chars ennemis. Pour mémoire, le Sherman est incapable de tourner sur place. Ensuite, un obus preforant de 88mm passe au travers d'une cuirasse de 150 mm à 0° à bout touchant, et perfore toujours 120 mm de blindage à 1000m. La vitesse initiale et les caractéristiques ballistiques font que la flèche de trajectoire est quasi nulle jusqu'aux fameux 1000m et qu'un Tigre peut tirer sur une cible sans avoir à estimer précisément les distances jusqu'à 1000m. Il faut juste que le tireur anticipe le déplacement. Enfin, tant que le char ennemi n'entre pas dans le fameux trèfle à 4 feuilles ( cf Tigerfibel ) ey que le Tigre reste dans une orientation "Mahlzeit", soit environ sur un axe 10h-4h, le camarade d'en face peut toujours tirer, ça fera bling sur la cuirasse, point barre. Le premier char capable d'engager le Tigre I avec des chances raisonnables de succès, c'est le Su-152. Même les canons de 100mm russes n'assurent pas 100% de destruction.

c'est vrais j'ai lus quelque part qu'il y avais eu plus de perte par panne que par le fait de l'ennemi

mais un bon panther ça le fait aussis

Ah m'en parle pas...j'avais quelques petites colonnes de Pz V en Italie, qui partaient gaiement à la conquête de la base ennemie au sud de Limone.
Hélas ils ont croisé des Beaufighters et sont passés sur des ponts au moment où Viper décidait de les faire péter ...et nous on s'occupait de la flotte ennemie et pas assez des Beaufighters...

Quelle belle campagne quand j'y repense, sans doute parce qu'étant OT je connaissais tout l'envers du décor, mais quand même, çà a vraiment chié des bulles...